Greg Hetherington owner of Fuel Training Club on how to overcome injuries

Me against Myself, in this Episode we get Inside the mind of Fuel owner Greg Hetherington as he battles a torn achilles.

As a Weekend Warrior, injuries are an inevitable part of being active, competing and pushing the limits with your fitness! Just ask Greg Hetherington, who tore his achilles in February playing flag football with buddies! 

Greg is a friend of Adam & Michelle and Owner of Fuel Training Club, our favourite place to train in Toronto! We wanted to share his inspiring story and the approach he took to get back on track after this serious injury.

Greg is just like many of you:
•Trains hard & pushes the limits
•Has 2 kids at home
•Busy career to manage
•NEEDS his daily workout to help him cope
....meaning that being sidelined needed to be addressed QUICKLY! 

In Episode #50 of the Podcast we talk to Greg about how he took ownership of his injury and the steps he took to ensure that he was going to make the quickest and best recovery possible! 

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Transcript

Speaker 1 [0:06 - 0:31]
A community of members, coaches and professionals working as a team of like-minded high-performance  individuals in constant pursuit, connecting this exclusive group with the tools and resources they require to live a high-performance high performance lifestyle, conquering what life has thrown at them. We are living the fit life. Yeah, welcome to the living the fit life  podcast. Episode 50. I'm your host, Daniel and I'm joined by by by by Coch ADJ How's it going dude? Quarterfinals this weekend?

Speaker 2 [0:31 - 0:46]
Good, good, good. Yeah. Teaming up first workout tonight and then we're gonna be rolling all weekend. So pumped. But uh workouts got leaked a little bit this morning, so it was nice to get a little sneak peek into them and excited.

Speaker 1 [0:47 - 1:02]
Yeah, lots of competition will definitely have some more podcasts with the quarterfinals, but today we're joined, I'm very excited to have Greg Heatherington, former CfL player owner of Fuel Training club in Toronto and a very fit person on the call today. How's it going, Gregg?

Speaker 3 [1:03 - 1:04]
I'm good, how are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 [1:05 - 1:40]
Fantastic. Fantastic. Um yeah, I followed you for a while now um really great to have you on the call. I'm really interested in diving into sort of your background, like most of the people we talked to, especially some of our guests, they have some sort of high level athletic background and then you know, once they get older and grow up kind of thing, you know, fitness is still part of their life but its transition and a lot of the people, our listeners tend to relate a lot with that. So I think that you're a great candidate for that and I think, um yeah, it's really awesome to have you on the show.

Speaker 3 [1:41 - 1:42]
Yeah. Happy to be here.

Speaker 1 [1:43 - 1:48]
Nice, nice, nice. Um yeah, go ahead,

Speaker 2 [1:50 - 2:51]
awesome. Um so Greg, Yeah, man, it's been as a fellow gym owner, it's been a crazy couple of years. Um I've been to Greg's gyms a couple of times in Toronto and his community, much like ours is this community of high performers and they get their workouts him before and after work. But Covid kind of threw a little bit of wrench into that over the past two years. But Greg like LP, just pivoted right away and as we're talking to him now, he's sitting in his garage gym and running online workouts and he's created this amazing online community um as well as his gym. So pretty cool. But the reason this conversation kind of sparked is because Greg's a weekend warrior like us and he was playing football with his buddies I think, and he tore his achilles. What was that a couple of weeks ago,

Speaker 3 [2:52 - 2:57]
Three were 3.5 weeks in. Uh But yeah, it's it's exactly how it sounds.

Speaker 2 [2:57 - 3:07]
So yeah, you know, like all of us super fit guy goes out to have some fun with buddies and kind of throws a damper in your training plan.

Speaker 3 [3:08 - 3:24]
Yeah, I mean, life mainly. But yeah, training training to, you know, not being able to drive and walk upstairs. No, no, but absolutely right. Like I think, you know, training is part of it, but all the other little things that you don't really consider that often, other injuries don't impact that much.

Speaker 2 [3:25 - 3:50]
Yeah, but Greg won an incredible job pivoting and that's kind of what sparked this conversation is because oftentimes we see people get sidelined with injuries and then they're training plan gets totally derailed in a negative way and you kind of took this positive spin on it. Um and we're excited to just dive into that a little bit more today.

Speaker 1 [3:51 - 4:22]
Yeah, yeah, and I saw that on the, on the, on your instagram, I was like, oh sure, because I was thinking about like, man, we gotta have you on the podcast at one point and I saw that, I was like, oh, that sucks. Maybe another reason why we should catch you because you you definitely didn't slow down with your training, so I'm looking forward to get into that. But before we sort of dive into that, one of the get maybe a brief sort of idea of sort of your background, sort of athletic finish, your cFl player, how have you gotten to sort of at this point where you are now, like what is your sort of story,

Speaker 3 [4:24 - 6:18]
you know, fitness started well before football, did football was not, you know, I didn't play it growing up. I just, you know, in high school, going to college playing football is a better step for a lot of sports well for for that sport in particular, you know, baseball and hockey, basketball, I I wasn't excelling necessarily in those to the same extent And football provided the best opportunity. And I just started playing in grade 11, 12, uh, and then jumped in in college and I went to McGill uh theology degree. So that was sort of where the education behind fitness, although that really started sooner, I'd say. And uh, yeah, just, you know, I fell in love, not honestly to be completely transparent, not so much with football itself, it was the culture, it was the, you know, camaraderie. I grew up playing baseball, hockey, basketball and, you know, there's 100 guys in the locker room on a football team. Um, it's a big, it's a big deal, you get to know a lot of people. Um, the training was just for me, the group training was what really motivated me. I really learned that in my first offseason was how much fun it was to train with a bunch of friends, all striving towards the same goal, having a healthy level of competition and really it being, you know what I was looking forward to most every day. And uh, I mean, don't get me wrong, I I I'm a competitive person, so I love playing football, but it was really that culture of training and I just, you know, kept that up afterwards. Uh, and I know there's a lot of people on the other side of the spectrum who are just phenomenal athletes didn't really love training and then once sport is over they don't continue with that training. And I feel like that's where, you know, I was just getting started

Speaker 1 [6:20 - 6:24]
well of course. So what age did you play football through?

Speaker 3 [6:26 - 7:19]
So I finished in 2009. Um I played, so was drafted by the Calgary Stampeders in 2007, Uh went to b. in 2008, played their 2000 and 2009 uh mainly practice roster first two years. But it was really the third year when I cracked the roster. That was sort of my biggest accomplishment, personal accomplishment. And uh in the offseason I started managing a gym in Toronto. And for most people who know the CFl is not, you know, you're at the end of your professional career. So for me it was looking at what the next step was and I wasn't, you know, going to be a perennial all star and and make a a long term career at a football, saw the opportunity with fitness um Left in 2010 and have just been going since then at the, at the business model side of the fitness industry.

Speaker 1 [7:21 - 7:30]
Amazing. And so so for the listeners fuel training, would I know adam you've been there, would you say it's it's similar to sort of LP and it's sort of the same sort of group training model.

Speaker 2 [7:31 - 7:51]
Yeah, very similar. We have one of our longtime members Andrew Fong for our original LP crew. He moved to Toronto for work. He said where should I train, What should I do? And right away we said fuel and I think he yelled in that community just like he did it here. Very similar model in terms

Speaker 3 [7:51 - 7:52]
and test mcandrew

Speaker 2 [7:53 - 7:54]
and test. Yes.

Speaker 3 [7:54 - 7:56]
Yeah. The O. G. Test is the O. G.

Speaker 2 [7:56 - 7:59]
He'll be mad at me if I, yeah, you

Speaker 3 [7:59 - 8:03]
know, we can just edit that, put her segment first and then talk about finger

Speaker 2 [8:03 - 8:39]
exactly both of them. Yeah. Right. Exactly. So yeah, Greg before Covid, you had three facilities up and running um kind of in in different parts of the city and then I don't know what Covid did all that but uh the community, yeah, exactly. Like ours trying to live the fit life as we call it for you guys. Your slogan is be better and um they're pushing it every day and trying to balance family and career and life and stay fit and healthy and yeah, exactly the same as our people.

Speaker 3 [8:41 - 9:13]
Yeah, definitely geared to fitness enthusiasts. Um We're we're not we're not a crossfit. So that's probably the biggest differentiation but I find, you know, from a culture standpoint community like we did a fundraiser together a lot to me years ago now, it's two years ago now um and it was, you know, I was actually just looking at it a couple weeks ago And it was for the children's aid foundation and, and we raised over $5,000 between what was there, five of us across Canada, five gyms across Canada. And

Speaker 1 [9:13 - 9:15]
uh,

Speaker 3 [9:15 - 9:37]
yeah, and I mean all completely, like when you, when you talk about it from a fitness standpoint, like maybe the types of workouts that you would deliver, but from a community standpoint, I mean almost identical, I think you could have stepped into any one of those facilities and I think that's where the industry is really thriving right now, is in these small group facilities that are really prioritizing building relationships.

Speaker 1 [9:38 - 9:51]
Yeah, that's cool. And, and like what, what spurred the creation of fuel? Was it was the sense of community for you or was it more or less what you were saying before? Like, you really enjoyed the group training model and you wanted to make it work as sort of a sort of a career?

Speaker 3 [9:53 - 11:57]
Yeah, the so I got into definitely, so for context, I started with personal training and managing a personal training studio, I was in Calgary actually at the time it was 2007 learning from someone out there, a place called innovative fitness. Vince Danielson was a great mentor and understood that that model, it was a smaller group and innovative is they're they're based out of Vancouver and they've expanded since then, there's, there's one in Toronto, but they were all about destination fitness. So for executives and professionals who aren't necessarily training, not even weekend warriors, but those who wanted to train towards, let's say climbing mount Kilimanjaro or going to moab and doing a a mountain biking circuit um going and we did a cat ski trip. So you formulate these programs around these destinations in these events. And I thought that was a really interesting way to look at because everything I was training for was always sport, right? And you thought, well wait a minute people actually trained for other things. But you know, I was naive 21 22 year old. And but then I realized as a trainer, the aspect missing from that one on one session was that that group element, like you definitely like you, you had, there was definitely a community with the trainers um and and the clients in there, but it just wasn't the same as training together like I did playing football. So as you alluded to And I found that I think I first discovered crossfit in 2007, remember someone introducing it to me, I'm like this is very similar, you know, to to football in a sense, everyone's training towards it. And uh but I realized it was that was its own sport. I mean it's it's evolved ever since then. Uh and I, you know, I was still playing football. So a lot of the training was geared towards athletics and high, high intensity intervals and you know, like hockey shift type training. So it took that path and I realized that the community group training was the most motivating experience for a fitness enthusiast to put themselves in an environment to succeed.

Speaker 1 [11:59 - 12:11]
Very cool. That's cool. And like what was the, what was the transition like for you as a pro athlete, sort of going to a weekend warrior or lifestyle athlete? It was that difficult for you?

Speaker 3 [12:12 - 12:59]
Yeah, at first, because I stopped, the one good thing is I stopped on my own terms. So I still felt like I could play and it took me, you know, a couple of months into the season to realize maybe I made a mistake. Um, but you know, looking back at it, it was definitely a good time. You know, who knows, I could have been cut in camp, right. And then not have a job and who knows what I would have been doing probably at that time had gone to Fort McMurray. But the, you know, with, with regards to being a lifestyle athlete, there's, there's a fairly competitive touch football league. I know for those that don't, aren't familiar with it, it sounds a bit like an oxymoron, you know, but, but the touch football leagues throughout Canada throughout, you know, North America really are the next step down from football. So that's that's where the dinosaurs, you know, the, the dinosaurs of football.

Speaker 1 [13:00 - 13:00]
Football.

Speaker 3 [13:03 - 13:47]
Beer League it is, don't get me wrong, you know, guys guys are definitely drinking after games, but it's, it's not like your Beer League hockey week to week. It's like weekend tournaments, You know, you go to Kingston for the weekend Belleville and they're all former for the most part, at least collegiate level football players, many professional level football players. And you know, people just love running routes and catching balls. So, uh, that was a very good transition for me because it allowed me to continue to want, enjoy playing football and sort of edge that transition of competitiveness, um, and still have something to train for. So that was good. And uh, yeah. And then got out of that really when, when fuel started, just, there's no more time.

Speaker 1 [13:48 - 13:52]
Yeah. What I have to ask, What position did you play football,

Speaker 3 [13:53 - 13:53]
receiver.

Speaker 1 [13:54 - 14:30]
Okay. That's what I was gonna assume. You're pretty lean, pretty fit guy. Um, very cool. And so like how has your, your personal fitness journey sort of evolved to like now, I guess before your, your sort of injury. So like you go from obviously doing a lot of strength stuff, explosive movements with football training you then sort of move out and start fuel training, which is sort of a general sort of finished structure for you. How is your sort of fitness sort of evolved to like now, like, I guess before covid, what was it like?

Speaker 3 [14:32 - 14:49]
Yeah, you know, I mean, funny enough, I sort of neglected a lot of that training, when the gym opened, uh I was, when I was playing football, it was like to 20 to 25 then I was, I was dropped down to like £200 shortly after, you know, from doing the same training

Speaker 2 [14:49 - 14:49]
language.

Speaker 1 [14:49 - 14:50]
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 [14:51 - 14:55]
You know, I'm 64, so, you know, and, and six

Speaker 1 [14:55 - 14:56]
five. There we go, we're like,

Speaker 3 [14:56 - 16:00]
there you go, okay, there we go. Yeah. And I, I wasn't training as much and really before Covid the focus was on creating the classes for, for others, so that transition, as you said, like a lot of the power training, I wasn't doing the olympic lifts, like I was before, um that was a big part of our football training, at least I know there's a lot of different methodologies from different colleges now, but um that was a big part of the training that I did and uh transitioned a little bit more to, to general fitness. And then really when covid hit is when things really change that, I, I started putting on weight, good weight because I was leading these kettlebell classes. So we went, we went the route of kettlebells and uh, you know, I'd always, we always use kettlebells and they've been a part of our programming, but now it was, it was every day and it's amazing, you know, you preach that, hey, you just need to keep working out and things, good things happen, but when you've got a kettle bell in a front rack position five days a week you just get stronger. You don't need to do much else on that.

Speaker 1 [16:01 - 16:03]
That's simple. Yeah,

Speaker 3 [16:03 - 17:06]
it's that simple. So yeah, fitness wise, I mean obviously before the achilles injury, it was, you know, we've been in and out as you, as everyone can understand of gyms, opening gyms, closing. Um and you know, I was fortunate enough to be able to set up this home gym and get a barbell in here and pull up bar and some rings and to be able to still do some of those movements. But I really benefited from adding the variety of kettlebells. Like I felt better in the past two years training than I have in the past 10. That's first and maybe I think I'm stronger now than I was, you know, in my mid twenties, definitely not faster, but the, the variety. Um the change of pace, like having going, it's a great contrast going from strength training with barbells to two kettlebells. I threw a skier in the garage, I do a lot of track work. So I'm still doing a lot of work on the track and a rower and I just found having a, a wide range of modalities, especially kettlebells helped me quite a bit,

Speaker 1 [17:07 - 17:28]
well I went when I was, this was years ago before Covid I was traveling for work and I found a cannibal gym in san Francisco called Sf swing and it's legit, just the gym with catapults and it only cannibals and they have, they did like all these crazy like figure eights and there's a pretty decent workout and I just, it was crazy because it's kind of set up like across the gym but like there's literally

Speaker 3 [17:29 - 17:29]
hundreds of

Speaker 1 [17:30 - 17:51]
hundreds of them of all sizes, it's crazy but I can I get it like are you are you somebody that in your sort of fitness journey, are you a person that sort of dabbles in all you mentioned cross or like have you, do you dabble into all these types of different modalities of of fitness to learn and educate and then you kind of just build your own sort of protocol over time,

Speaker 3 [17:52 - 17:55]
definitely learning through experience. Um

Speaker 1 [17:56 - 17:56]
you

Speaker 3 [17:56 - 18:21]
know, there's also the business side of it, right? Like finding movements and formats and programs that fit a certain demographic and I think that for me is is sort of the fun part discovering what works there, but then also for myself, Yeah, finding what works well for me and that's probably to answer your question and fewer words has been finding that balance between everything um from a training standpoint.

Speaker 1 [18:22 - 18:35]
Yeah, I mean I see it with adam to like obviously adam's doubled into crossfit in endurance sports heavily, but even before that, I mean LP was olympic lifting and it was very much body weight. So, I mean, there is a journey of fitness I guess.

Speaker 3 [18:36 - 19:15]
Yeah. Yeah. I look back at, You know, if I see videos of myself swinging a kettlebell 10 years ago, I'm, you know, embarrassed to put them online right now And and just, you know, how things have evolved, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, quantitative measures were far more important than qualitative measures. Now. It's you know, I'm not as concerned. My working max is not the priority. You know, my my Pr's are in the past for some things and working maxes and and and working at one or two reps short uh to to work on range of motion. Like these are all things that I think anyone who's been in the industry long enough sees that evolution happen.

Speaker 1 [19:17 - 19:41]
That's cool. And it isn't it interesting that like without Covid, you might not have uncovered that. Like, you know, I mean, like Covid, like I always tell Adam like the first year of Covid with LP, like, I mean, he didn't force us, but, you know, he coached us into doing bodyweight stuff and I hate bodyweight, I'm 65, like 200, some pounds. I'm not mobile. And but like after like a few months of their first year in Covid, like I felt way more mobile than I ever did before. It was like, okay,

Speaker 3 [19:42 - 19:55]
that was the big thing with kettlebells, the mobility. Yeah, absolutely. Um getting forced to do things that you wouldn't otherwise do. I mean, you know, never let a good crisis go to waste so you can take advantage of those opportunities and things you wouldn't otherwise be doing

Speaker 1 [19:57 - 19:57]
for sure.

Speaker 3 [19:57 - 19:58]
For sure.

Speaker 1 [19:59 - 20:23]
Um Yeah, I I want to dive into the injury because I think I've been really impressed with some of the stuff you've been posting and we'll definitely share your, your instagram, handle it on the podcast. But um maybe if you can, for those who don't know, like, how significant of an injury have you sustained, like, what's what's

Speaker 3 [20:23 - 20:24]
the

Speaker 1 [20:24 - 20:42]
Yeah, like right now, like, you're, let's talk with this injury because I think this is what people will listen to, because I think there's a lot of people that can relate, like, how do you overcome these injuries? These setbacks? I think maybe um yeah, if you can tell us, like, the significance of this injury now that you're dealing with.

Speaker 3 [20:43 - 24:11]
Yeah, I mean, injuries are a part of life obviously to different extents, you know, people go through varying degrees of either back pain, to spraining an ankle to rupturing an achilles, right? And I think especially playing sports, you know, you just, you just have this mindset that the injury is a temporary setback, but I've never had an injury this severe, I've had injuries more painful, like, cracking ribs, way more painful. Not nearly as severe, right. Like, it's that's probably one of the worst things, um Spraining an ankle feels worse snapping achilles. I had to take a step to realize what had happened, you know, and then hop off and then and it really took a little bit to clue in like what was going on. Because most injuries, the pain is so indicative of how things are going to function after. And this one has just been very strange. It's been very debilitating. It's a long recovery process and for those who don't know the achilles, it's a tendon that attaches your heel essentially to your calf and once that thing goes and and it it literally it snapped sort of in the middle there and you have nothing connecting you at the bottom of your foot. And because there's so little blood flow in that extra, I can see I know every time I've said so the first few times I said that I kind of was quizzed, you know, thinking about it now, I've watched, you know, surgeries online, ruptures of them actually happening in slow motion. Uh I've been diving deep into the literature behind the recovery behind it. Uh spoken to different or tha's different athletic therapist, Cairo's just on different roads to recovery to get a better understanding, but it's just it takes so long to recover and it really is life altering, you know, temporarily, but it's life altering and uh at first, you know, I was thinking, alright, so I can't drive but then you start to realize okay I can't pick up kids from school, drop off kids from school, I can't go get groceries, I can't get myself to work to do something, you know, last minute uh and you know going up and downstairs is annoying. Uh There's just all these things you don't you don't realize like flying for instance uh you get you have to consider blood clots, you know I'm getting on a flight this weekend actually, I gotta take a baby aspirin starting tomorrow for a week. Uh and there's all of these inconveniences that you don't really think about and the whole time this is happening, the biggest concern is re rupturing it. And so I I've gotten the non operative route and for those that are familiar with it like 10-15 years ago you'd probably get a ruptured achilles operated on. But there's been a lot of progress in um rehabilitation programs that that get you out of a cast sooner and put you into a walking cast to get some more load bearing which is going to help aid in the recovery and that's shown significant improvements and non operative um achilles rehabilitation and yeah, I'm 3.5 weeks in um starting to a little bit of load bearing. Now there's a few different schools of thought on it but I feel like I made a fairly educated decision and uh there's still lots you can do I guess the moral, the story, there's, there's still lots you can do, you might not be able to do what you were able to do before, but there's still lots you can do.

Speaker 2 [24:13 - 24:37]
Yeah. It's been so cool watching you transition. Like I just, I'm fascinated by your mindset around just like almost attacking this injury and wanting to learned so much about it. Is that from, you know, years of playing football and other sports and like other injuries or do you feel like you have a new mindset around?

Speaker 3 [24:38 - 28:24]
It's so different. Yeah, I have a new mindset because I've never had to like, okay, it helps to have a kinesiology degree and have a understanding of, of movement. Like these are all assets for sure. And having been, you know, fairly good shape before the injury. That's also an asset going into it. Um, you know, but I've never like, it's so hard to describe because it's not when I say it's not painful, it's uncomfortable and there's like weird cramps that go on in your calf that you can't really control because normally with a cramp, let's, that your hamstring cramps, your quad cramps, you just extend and flex your, like can't do any of the ankle. So I just let that calf fire, watching the little, you know, the fibers go dance around in there and it's as uncomfortable as it and weird as it sounds. Um, and then I'll just like in the middle of the night I'll be you know I'll be in a dead sleep and I'll just wake up with like a major cramp in my calf or my toes are like feel like fire because the circulation is cut off. You know like the nerves like there's just like these weird things. I've never experienced any prior injury experience and I've got a lot that I've had is almost you know irrelevant for this. Um And I've never had to adjust my lifestyle as much for an injury as I have had for this. And I think that's I think I realized right when it happened how much effort this is going to take to understand what was going on and how to best approach this because my my biggest thing is probably a bit more of a rant. But a lot of it because it's so new right? When you think about it, they're still performing surgeries on professional athletes. I look at there's a starting running back for the L. A. Rams cam Akers, this is the fastest recovery. He ruptured his achilles end of july before preseason. He played in the A. F. C. Championship and then NFC championship and then wait a minute, no KFC and then he went into the super bowl. That's 5.5 months that it took for him and normally for someone to get back at that level it's it's a year to two years now you can get back to walking around within, you know, three months, but for someone to recover that quickly, you know, I really wanted to find out how he did it, you know? And the answer to that is I probably won't be able to do that because I don't have access to that rehabilitation and whatnot, most like most normal civilians would, but there's a lot to learn from it, the type of, of rehabilitation he was doing and you know, there's not a lot of general information out there for people who have achilles ruptures. It's actually, it's amazing. You search google for, you know, achilles, rupture pain, achilles, what should I expect? It's all, and it's all people who have ruptured it filming themselves on Youtube. Like there are some physio posts on like what, what I have, which is like a sheet of exercises to do. But there's no real accounts of like how did you deal with this from a training standpoint? Like, all of the milestones are time based. So it's like, you can't do this until four weeks, but there's no consideration for someone who's more active and more able to to do this. So who's to say that there's another milestone that might be faster for that individual. So I'm not rushing anything. I've got no competition to get ready for, you know, I'm not gonna be playing the Super Bowl anytime soon, but for me, You know, I want, I want to, I don't want to re rupture it obviously and I don't want to have an elongated Tendon which leads to less power and I want to be able to perform at the same level if not more than I did when this injury happened. So I've set a goal. I mean I could I could dunk before this. So my goal is by next year I'm, 40 next year Is to be able to dunk at 40. And that will be my, that's what I'm I'm setting my training towards

Speaker 2 [28:24 - 28:41]
maybe amazing. Yeah, you're a man on a mission. If you had like some steps that you you took, was it like what I'm, what I'm hearing is like Get educated on it. Was was that # one or like what was that?

Speaker 3 [28:42 - 30:19]
Yeah, 100% find, yeah get educated on it. Read. There's lots, you can you can find all the studies, you know, so that you don't you're not reading, you know, some men's health article, someone else's opinion. So you can formulate your own and then speak to, you know, no offense to anyone who's written in there. But but I mean like looking at the actual data that shows how they were doing these these recovery processes speak to a couple different Orthodox. Don't just speak to one because and again, no offense to anyone who's an Ortho, they obviously know a lot more than I do, but when you see an Ortho at the hospital, they're not always a foot and ankle specialist, they might, you know, be working on the shoulder hip. And although the achilles is not rocket science, it's different than having someone who is repairing an achilles tendon every day. All right, that they're in an operating room. So finding a foot specialist, um, speaking with rehabilitation experts who have dealt with athletes and recovery, not normal population because it's there's a risk reward to this, like most elements and fitness. And it's, I would say it's better to be on the less risky side and take an extra month to recover than it is to rush it, Right? Because this is like this, you know, to go, as I said, another year from now, two full performance, 3 to 4 months for like, normal lifestyle. But in the grand scheme of things a month while risking a re rupture and having to restart this, you just, you need to be careful. But I do think if you know what you are doing and you you get an informed decision on what you should be doing, that you can take control of your rehab and do things that you might have thought weren't possible to do

Speaker 2 [30:20 - 30:28]
cool and then you set these goals like, I feel like that was the next step is you're like you're laying out this timeline.

Speaker 3 [30:29 - 31:08]
Yeah, yeah. Looking at. Yeah. And I think it's a realistic timeline. I mean, on, on goals, I mean adam you really motivated me because I've, and you probably saw this, but this, you know, £500 dead lift, sub five minute mile has sort of been floating around the world wide web for a little bit. But you know, seeing seeing you do it, I was just like, I wanted to do this, but now I'm going to do this and not because I think, you know, I, I followed you for a while in your all of your fitness journeys and I'm like, this is the level that you're at is what I aspire to be. And if I can get, because that was my goal for this May, that was my goal this week. And I was getting down

Speaker 2 [31:08 - 31:11]
there. Yeah,

Speaker 3 [31:11 - 31:22]
on the sideline a bit for that. But that will come back. I think, I think that's actually That's a that's a that's still a realistic goal maybe when I'm 41, but let's see the dark one.

Speaker 1 [31:24 - 32:13]
Yeah, that's, that must be so like, like, so it happens. The dog says you've, you've ruptured the achilles tendon in your mind. You're probably thinking you probably already know how long it's going to be then he tells you it's gonna be a year. He might give it even longer than that. Like what is your mindset? Like, how do you because right then and there no offense to the general population, but most people would be like, shit, I am screwed. I'm gonna sit my ask on the couch for the next year, you know, depressed, like honestly a lot of things, obviously depression, a lot of things will come into play here. Like how do you, is it like is it just your fitness ability like that is that your community like how do you get your, your mind and not let yourself go to those sort of darker places?

Speaker 3 [32:15 - 33:17]
Well, they definitely go to those darker places. It's a matter of getting out of those darker places. And I think this is one thing the pandemic helped with is is you know, dealing with setbacks and I think what I realized if I were to learn, especially the psychological element of training, I never really thought of working out as a form of a, you know, just just setting myself loose from every other problem that's going on and being able to exercise and have that that psychological benefit I never really looked at. I mean I always knew that it was there, but for me, I was always driven to train, maybe I hadn't had something as serious as this happened yet. And then as soon as the pandemic happened, I realized how important training was for your mental health and I knew that if I wasn't training during some of those times that it was tougher for me to get through a day and this is very much the same. I obviously injury pandemic, you know, two different scenarios, but the way I look at it is if I'm not training it's going to be worse than than if I am.

Speaker 1 [33:18 - 33:47]
Mhm. Yeah and I guess like and like the timing thing, so like I'm like obviously you set ups and downs right like and on a daily basis, like what are some of the things that you're trying to implement into your sort of mindset or routine to make sure that you are hitting that goal and that, you know, this isn't this is this isn't inconvenient and it sucks but it's not uh not impossible to get through the next day and keep going,

Speaker 3 [33:51 - 34:01]
you know, I I don't know, I I think it's a question. Yeah, no, I I I I don't know, I like I like challenge, maybe that's the best I

Speaker 1 [34:01 - 34:12]
think, I mean I guess it's goal goal oriented, like what I'm saying to like very much like if you if you have a goal in place, most likely Greg, you're you're going to hit it right, like, you know, you set a goal and you're gonna get there

Speaker 3 [34:13 - 35:49]
yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna make I'm gonna make an effort, I'm not going to set a goal and then just think okay it might happen, it's it's gotta be, you know, planned out, here's what needs to happen and you know, I kind of enjoyed exploring what I can do on on one like uh and there's there's as I said, there's a lot, like I mean I'm not, I can't go for a run, which is the thing, I probably miss the most when I say run, I mean, you know, 400 m sprint around the track, but you know, but I become a skier fiend like I feel like skier going on one leg because I've got this, you know, this, this uh walking crutch, which has been the savior. So it's like a hands free crutch. It's fantastic. Anyone who has a or anyone who is on crutches should get one of those because it allows you to do things like, you know, make a cup of coffee without burning yourself. But um being able to ski with one leg has actually helped me improve my form and I realized, you know what I was doing incorrectly before because I'm forced to hinge more because I don't have a need to squat with necessarily. So I, you know, I I and I was somewhere I was just thinking about this morning I was doing so I would I would never have done a 40 or 60 minutes skier before. Like that to me would have been a waste of time. But you know, the last few weeks, that's what I've been doing because that's really the only thing I can do to get my heart rate up, I figured out a way to jerry rig a rower now and I'll be able to get on a bike in a few weeks, but the skier has been, you know, if I want to push it safely, right? Because again, I don't want to elongate the tendon. I don't want to re rupture it if I want to push myself and get my heart rate into that highest zone, the skier is how I do it

Speaker 2 [35:52 - 36:18]
awesome. Yeah. We, you know, we talked a lot about what you're doing fitness wise and you have this roadmap and timeline built out. But I feel like I see you talking a lot about your nutrition and even some of the other self care stuff you've been starting to do. Ah what do you think about nutrition? Like where, where is that going to play a factor in the recovery process?

Speaker 3 [36:18 - 37:42]
I was really uh dialed into a routine nutrition wise. Like that's been something like I'm someone who, you can give me the same thing every day, you know, as long as it's nutritious and I'm not gonna complain right? Like I don't get me wrong, I like variety. It's not like I'm, I'm, I don't have a palate, but uh, for me, I I don't need, I prefer the routine than than changing up a lot. So this one has been a lot of me diving deep into my own personal biometrics, you know analytics of clark intake clerk expenditure. Um, looking at the number of steps that I've taken the number of floors that I'm taking and it's clear that I'm not doing as much as I was before, so I've definitely adjusted the amount that I'm eating just to decrease that a little bit. I'm trying to keep my clerk that that's that's actually a daily goal. Does it hit a minimum of expenditure just so that I can continue on a similar path there? Um But from a qualitative standpoint, I've made more of an effort to ensure that I'm eating more vegetables, getting more protein in uh and and ensuring that, you know, I'm staying hydrated, all of which would hinder your ability to recover. It's less so about, you know, I'm not I'm not looking to to build too much right now, but but but make sure that I'm not decreasing the speed of recovery

Speaker 1 [37:44 - 37:58]
makes sense. I would have I haven't even thought of that like like if you're your calorie input um just like not obviously being able to walk around as much or and obviously you'll gain some weight just by default, right? Yeah,

Speaker 3 [37:58 - 38:42]
that could be, it could be easy to get away from you, right? Um But but it's something, you know, I'm someone who's burning before achilles, you know, 3600 calories a day, 4 to 4000 calories a day. So for me my my balance because I need to be eating around 3600 and 4000 calories a day if I want to maintain weight. Um Now it's dropped down to about 32, 3400, which might not seem like a lot when you compound that over the duration of the injury, that could lead to some, some undesirable weight gain from a performance standpoint, like if I want to, you know, get right back onto the track and look at running certain times and being able to do things I was doing before, I don't want to then have to spend another month having to lose the weight that is preventing me from hitting some of these goals.

Speaker 1 [38:43 - 39:04]
Mhm Cool. And what is sort of, I know you you do a lot of recovery, I know that you're sort of a cold plunge sort of guy and I imagine you've done a lot of different recovery stuff. So what does like the recovery protocols look like now with the injury, like, I guess focused on the industry and also just focus on your on your body.

Speaker 3 [39:04 - 39:22]
The so sleep first one that's always been for me priority strangely, of everything that's happened in the past month, sleep has gotten better and I attribute that to a few things, but that's a huge part of recovery to is making sure you're sleeping enough. I'm I'm I'm on aura

Speaker 1 [39:22 - 39:24]
our

Speaker 3 [39:24 - 39:42]
first uh Yeah, there are, there are no, I mean, I just, I've got a Garmin watch, right? So having a loop in a watch, it gets there a little more uh redundancy there. But yeah, for me, sleep, making sure I'm sleeping, making sure your sleep has

Speaker 1 [39:42 - 39:43]
improved your sleep has improved.

Speaker 3 [39:44 - 40:28]
Yeah, yeah, it's, I mean, that could be a whole other podcast because I'm waiting for the full month of data to make a more educated analysis on why that is. But my early speculation is I'm being forced to sleep on my back. Like I have to lift my legs up, keep my leg up elevated to prevent swelling. And those like rampage cramps that I call them that happen in the middle of the night. Like if my leg slips down in the middle of the night, you can guarantee something's happening. So I've got my legs propped up and I'm forced on my back and I'm just, I'm sleeping like a baby right now. It's so, it's weird. I really thought this was going to affect me more um and sleep has gotten better. I don't know if that's the same for everyone, but for me at

Speaker 1 [40:28 - 40:29]
least,

Speaker 3 [40:29 - 41:39]
and then secondary to that is making sure I move first thing in the morning. Like as I said, blood flow is a big concern when you're looking at extremity injuries, making sure that you're getting enough blood flow. So I want to make sure that I'm increasing blood flow to those areas, especially the elevated leg and that's just through gentle. You know, my my general prepped in the warm up and I do my workout first thing in the morning, that's why I'm doing these like steady state cardio intervals too because I want to get, I want to increase my stroke volume, my, you know, my cardiac output, get that blood flowing so that that is helping aid and recovery at least not heard it. Um I'm doing a concept called contra lateral strength training. So if I do tib anterior poles and calf raises and other exercises on my non injured leg, there is a transferable benefit to the injured leg. So, a neurological adaptation to being able to do these calf raises and tipped poles means that as soon as I'm able to get out of the cast, I'm not gonna be as far behind as I was had I not been doing it. Um I've got these things called toe spacers. I carry Fannie pack a lot now because having to go somewhere to get his real pen. It's

Speaker 1 [41:39 - 41:43]
the ghostfacers. Where

Speaker 2 [41:43 - 41:48]
are you finding with the toe spacers? Is that what's the what's the thought behind it for the achilles?

Speaker 3 [41:49 - 41:51]
My foot is like

Speaker 1 [41:52 - 41:52]
if

Speaker 3 [41:52 - 42:37]
you if you think about it, like think about if you're playing the piano with your hands, right, and then think about playing the piano with your toes. And then imagine having your foot in a cast and then taking your foot out of the cast and then trying to play the piano with your toes. Like you just can't your toes don't work. It's almost like you're sending a message to bend and it won't bend for a number of reasons. So I will take off the, it's an air cast now. Um and I'll put the toe spacers on to ensure that those deep intrinsic muscles of the foot are not going completely dormant. And then it also reminds me to, to continually move them and wiggle them, sort of like you do with, you know, feet and cold ski boots, you know, you gotta keep those toes moving otherwise, those things, just those things are gonna freeze on you. Um I finally gave in to the thera gun, I was not a percussion therapy,

Speaker 2 [42:37 - 42:38]
I thought

Speaker 3 [42:38 - 43:39]
that I was against it, but I just, I don't know, maybe I'm old school, you know, the caveman tools at a lacrosse ball and a wooden dowel and you know, it stretched, you know, who does that anymore? But the percussion therapy has been great because the leg, especially the calf, I can't get at it and I'm concerned you don't want to put, you know, the vibrations going into a healing tendon, but the muscles surrounding it. Um And also my big concern aside from the injured leg is you're doing so much on your non injured, like, so you're hopping around constantly. I'm single leg dead lifting everything, you know, like all the things you trained for, it's happening now for life. Uh and I'm concerned about getting, you know, some, some patellar tendonitis because of that. So I always want to make sure I'm getting my quads and all of the surrounding muscles around the knee loose enough so that I'm not setting myself up to, you know, being a chair. Ah I've gone deep into it. Yeah, I think I think I've covered most things there, but frequent movement, frequent movement too.

Speaker 1 [43:40 - 44:10]
That's that's cool. I brought that sort of thought of the question. Like I wanted to dig into like what you're fitness and how you sort of are programming your fitness. But like I guess first, like you're just saying the one leg, how do you make sure that you don't overload that muscle? Like if you're I guess you're saying you're doing everything on the single leg, how do you program your fitness to ensure that you're not, you know, obviously getting another injury or just, you know, constantly aches and pains in the, on the other side.

Speaker 3 [44:10 - 44:23]
Well, I think a lot of bros will be happy that bench press wouldn't interfere with that. So, you know, you just put a heavy dose of pull ups and bench press in there, right? I probably don't have bicep curls and tricep extensions in the past four weeks that I have in the past four years. So what's what's

Speaker 1 [44:23 - 44:31]
the programming? Like? Obviously you're you're you're in charge of it, you don't need someone to tell you what to do? Um So what does it, what does the week look like, Like what are you doing to stay fit?

Speaker 3 [44:32 - 46:27]
Right, Alright, so 55 days of actual training, um two days of active recovery. So monday Wednesday friday or strength days and I've got a uh sort of an upper body strength circuit that I'm working on. That I do after a general warm up and some rehab for the leg. So I'm alternating between horizontal, vertical pressing, horizontal, vertical pulling, doing some more core work, taking some uh some time to work on some of the movements that I wouldn't have done because either wouldn't have been time for made an excuse not to do. So, you know, bench press bent over rows. And I found ways, you know, with the knee on the bench or knee on the crutch, um to do these and alternate between dumbbells and barbell. Um And then on Fridays though, like I'm doing single leg dead lifts just to work on, you know, the hinging portion of it. But I've been, I actually took that back, I was doing to two different leg day, like adding a leg exercise, but you do, so like just going upstairs, you know, it's like doing step downs or step ups the whole way. And uh and and that's where I noticed I'd overdo it, I'd go to get in the shower, right, I'm like, okay, this is where, you know, there's an actual legitimate excuse, maybe that leg day was not a good idea, but then Tuesday and thursday or exclusively conditioning on the rower and the skier. So I get a break there because I am conscious of overtraining, I realized, you know, I hadn't done, although there's a lot of things I can do, there's still overlap and if I don't consider that, I don't want to lead to another injury with us. Uh and then my yeah, so those cardio days are either steady state or high intensity intervals and Then like I was saying the 40 16 minutes skis, but the weekends are active recovery, so rehabilitation movements, a lot of mobility, uh and I'll do like 10 minutes skier row just to get the heart rate up on both of those days as well, but not, not like a high effort roller ski,

Speaker 1 [46:30 - 47:11]
wow, that's great. I mean, the mindset of maybe the old mindset of having an injury and taking it easy, right? And sort of uh you know, like this idea like I'm gonna get injured and I'm gonna try to work out two or three times a week versus like, and it's like your actual probably putting more effort into your training now with the, with the exercise of rehabilitation exercises, just two, like, I guess hope like to quicken the recovery. It's crazy how that Because I I know I can hear, I can hear somebody in the 90s or the 80's saying this to me and like, you're crazy, you're working out seven days or you're being active seven days. It's nuts. But I mean it's super inspiring.

Speaker 3 [47:11 - 47:46]
I've had a few comments, you know, people saying you're gonna hurt yourself, you're gonna be in that cast longer, you know, you're gonna re rupture, you're gonna restart and obviously that's a concern. Um and I'm very aware of that, but I'm also very cognizant of the the emotional impact of not doing anything has and I think, you know, maybe I haven't earned enough credit to to let people realize no, that I'm making sure I'm not over doing it. Like this isn't all for show, this is something that I I see as a safe way to overcome both the physical and emotional deficit that this has caused.

Speaker 1 [47:48 - 47:52]
Yeah. And imagine those people who were old school doctors telling you not to exercise too much,

Speaker 3 [47:52 - 49:20]
who knows? I don't even at that point it's just sort of dismissive. But like I definitely look if if this Ortho says don't stay on it for four, don't don't put any weight on it for four weeks. And then another, Ortho says no, after two weeks, I've seen benefits, you begin to say there's there's if someone's saying two weeks and someone saying for where does that difference come from? And and then, you know, when I read through the studies, they're all there, there's you can pull two weeks three weeks, four weeks, you know, some are like 4 to 6. Uh and as I said before, I just think you have to make your own educated decision. And and and the the Ortho is definitely, I would say the person you want to listen to the most. Um but if if, you know, for me, if I ask an Ortho are their considerations for varying levels of athletic ability and fitness. And you also have to front that with like look, I'm not trying to get out of this early. I just want to make sure that I'm doing everything that I can without over doing it. And when someone says now everyone's four weeks personally, I just think that's lazy because there has to be consideration for different people and it might not be your ability and your athleticism. It might be, I don't know, something random like your blood type or you know, your height or what you're doing, like there could just be another variable right to have a simple four week timeline. That is a cookie cutter approach to everyone. To me, it just says that there hasn't been enough research done on it and not that I want to be my own rat study, but at the same time I think I'm capable of doing it safely.

Speaker 2 [49:22 - 49:42]
Love love here in the plan and in the the thought that you put into your training and nutrition and recovery and I get I think chad and I have got to see it over the past three weeks uh from what you've been sharing through instagram Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 [49:42 - 49:43]
As much as

Speaker 2 [49:43 - 49:49]
I love to hear the thoughts that you've put into it and the regimented routine

Speaker 1 [49:49 - 49:49]
and

Speaker 2 [49:50 - 50:14]
it's so, you know, you're, you're, You have a new goal in mind and it's no different than you were when you were training for the £500 dead in the five minute mile. Like you've built essentially the same incredible training plan, roadmap to get you there and that she wrote back to 100% health first and then Slam Duncan at 40 years old.

Speaker 3 [50:14 - 50:15]
There you go. Yeah, literally.

Speaker 2 [50:16 - 50:17]
Oh, I love it.

Speaker 1 [50:18 - 51:09]
Yeah, it's crazy. It's super inspiring. I mean, I I think like we've talked about it like I was, I was gonna ask another sort of dive into this a little bit, but like, like motivation is motivation of like, I know some people like look at motivation in different ways, but like you're obviously motivated motivated by something and like, like just you hearing you talking, it's just like, man, like this guy is like, if I guess people around you that no, you, when this injury happened, they probably like, yeah, I'm not worried about Greg. He's gonna, he'll figure this thing out and he'll be back to back to full full send no time. Like it sounds like this is just another small problem part of the life in the journey. You're learning, you're super open to learning things, you're learning a ton of stuff like you're staying motivated by default. It feels like, or maybe that's at least I'm just like hearing like motivation is just like easy for you,

Speaker 3 [51:11 - 52:31]
you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that it's easy and I think that's probably, and, and both of you can attest this. You know, a lot of people just attribute if you're in the fitness industry, it should be easy to get fit because that's your job, right? It's like saying, you know, it should be easy to get rich if you're a banker. But the, the idea behind motivating myself is really driven by, if I don't do something sometimes, like really the first couple, the first week or two, like there were a few days where I'm like, I don't want to do anything, I just want to sit down, put my leg up on the couch and uh, you know, just feel sorry for myself and you have these, um, you know, like everyone, you have these, maybe I'll do it later, I won't, and I think I've just been there too many times through my whole life and especially the last couple of years to know that it's always worse when you don't do something that's good for you. So, and I don't just mean from a health standpoint and I'm not trying to, you know, lecture people on on life generally, but the motivation for me is, yes, a goal gives me a target to work towards and that's going to mean that getting up and going into the gym, I know what I'm doing. Uh and I'm ready to do it. I don't need to, to go in and think about it waste time and then cut a few sets short because I don't have enough time. It's really the roadmap is helpful and just knowing that it's better than I'm doing it then and I'm not doing it

Speaker 2 [52:33 - 52:34]
so cool.

Speaker 1 [52:34 - 53:06]
That's incredible. I have, I have one last question just because I think we often talk with this, like our community is, it fits in with us like your father, husband, you're a business owner, fitness is a huge part of your life now. This injury is a huge part of your life. Like how do you balance this? Like, like how do you manage it all to make sure that like obviously your family is there to support you and, and, and there's only so much you can do now, you can take the kids to school as easy as you did before, but like how do you balance this all? Like what is your plan?

Speaker 3 [53:08 - 54:08]
I have a really good plan for working out. I don't have a really good plan for life there. That's for sure. I would say that's, that's, I haven't found that balance yet. I think uh my wife has been extremely supportive. I mean she's gone from being, you know, having both of us as a parent to, to a single parent essentially for a lot of things. Uh and that that's mean that's meant for her making some sacrifices and some adjustments. Uh I I think, you know that's probably where I feel most if I'm most depressed about this, it's the fact that and and anyone can attest this with an interview, just you feel useless and having to depend on others is very draining initially if you're not used to it and asking people for things and you know, it's I think that's probably that balance is if I were to give myself a lesson and now I actually have to act it out, you just can't be as hard on yourself for asking for help and having people help you because you know, I do the same thing if someone else were in that position

Speaker 1 [54:10 - 54:54]
Well said, well said, yeah, I mean I be awesome to get you back in the podcast, this has been like super cool. I think like you have, there's a lot of stuff in here that like I think people will, will, will take and and use and obviously like you said, injuries do happen, you can't get away from them, like I mean you're super fit dude, and this happened right? Like it's like we talked about in an episode with dot Kyle about proactive recovery and trying to be super fit and and working on mobility and stuff like that, so you don't get injured, right? But like the fact that you, you are super fit individuals, one of the reasons probably why you will, you'll go through this faster than most people. So, um I think a lot of people relate to this podcast and get a lot out of it. So this has been awesome.

Speaker 3 [54:57 - 55:03]
Yeah, thanks for having me on. Glad to, you know, talk about this. I usually have these conversations with myself.

Speaker 1 [55:03 - 55:15]
Well, thank you for talking about it because it must not be easy. There's probably been some dark days and imagine there will be a few dark days in the future. But looking forward to seeing your seeing your sort of story and see how you can recover,

Speaker 2 [55:16 - 55:29]
excited to see it all pan out and excited to get what you get back on track with that £500 dead, five minute mile and here to cheer you on every step of the way. Yeah,

Speaker 3 [55:29 - 55:36]
I'm looking forward, that's a pinnacle for me. So that's definitely that, you know, not within reach right away, but I am,

Speaker 1 [55:38 - 55:38]
you

Speaker 2 [55:38 - 55:45]
know, I need another crack at it too, so maybe we'll try to we'll sync up timelines in a couple of years. I'll be I'll be ready for it or

Speaker 3 [55:45 - 55:52]
at least you can just do it faster. That's what

Speaker 1 [55:53 - 56:01]
awesome Greg. Thanks very much. Thanks everyone for listening. It's been awesome having Greg on the podcast and we'll see you next time. Okay